sometimes you've just got to throw your hands up in the air, and shake'em like you just don't care.
i was kind of disappointed at the very limited response i got to my last entry. it was a genuine question that i hoped my married friends could help me with, and my unwed friends too! rach sent me a solid email and gen posted a comment. i did manage to come up with some answers, but honestly, if you think of anything, please email me! i'm still interested in your insight, we're all alive, so i'm sure you've been affected by this in one way or another. in the meantime, this is what i've come up with...
ok, i think since married men already have a confidant, then they shouldn't need my friendship. and it would make me wonder what they want from me, even on a non-physical level. i would feel used to:
a) boost their ego (that perhaps they can still get attention from single women);
b) give them the illusion of freedom (even if just for an afternoon or drink at the goat);
c) give them a feeling in control of their lives (that they can pick & choose who they're friends with and are not bound by invisible limitations);
or) perhaps it's a jealousy thing (that the single girl is friends with his wife and he feels competitive with her and wants to be friends with the girl too).
and so therefore, i feel confident and justified in my sticking to my gut feeling. i won't be used by any man – intentionally or not.
do you have any idea how beautiful you are right now?
i don't need no
friends like these.
11 comments:
Lesley...am forming a response to said post. This, too, is something I ponder.
Michelle
Okay…you’re right Lesley…you deserve a better answer!
To tell you the truth though, once I got married, I developed a much better friendship with the men in my life than I had had before I was married. I’ve had a handful of close guy friends and somehow, until I got married, there was always the knowledge that that friendship could be something different…and that always forced both parties to proceed with caution at all times. Suddenly, once I got married, it was as though this weight had been lifted and we all knew that these relationships could be nothing more than friendship…and it was great!
Granted, I never spend time with them on my own really. I email with them and we, as a couple, spend time with them but, like you said, there isn’t a need to for anything different. If one of them was in town and wanted to have lunch…that wouldn’t be an issue but, keep in mind, that would likely only apply to people that were in my life before my husband (double standards…I know!). Like wise, if one of Steve’s good friends (from before my time) was in town, I wouldn’t have a problem with them getting together over lunch…but if it was someone new that he just met, I would likely feel uncomfortable with it.
I think in the end, it comes down to a boundary issue. Marriage in and of itself draws a line in the sand, and I think that needs to be respected. Besides, why would you want to be friends with boys when you can be friends with girls?!?!?!
I wouldn't mind if anyone (female or male) wanted to take Myron to the goat and hang out. I'd just be happy that he got out of the house! lol.
I thought your use of the word 'use' was interesting. As friends, don't we 'use' each other? Like, you must be getting some benefit from your friends, so aren't you 'using' them? It reminded me of an Ask Ellie column I read recently where a person was asking about a 60 year old friend going out with a 25 year old girl and should she intervene because the 25 year old was clearly using the status/security of her friend and Ellie said :
All relationships have some element of people needing what the other provides, whether it’s love, emotional support, and/or material benefits.
it's not the using i have issue with. it's what they're getting from that use that i take serious issue with. i won't be used to boost the ego of another woman's husband. i won't be used as a pawn a struggle for freedom or control. i have no doubt that no guy would intentionally use me for those things, but i'll have no part of it. people can have "emotional affairs" more easily and less intentionally than sexual ones. we use men too, for validation, to feel beautiful, to feel special. i don't think it's right to get that from an attached man.
i think gen's right about the boundaries thing. i like your way of thinking, girl! you're so funny :)
ultimately, i don't think it's a question of us and them. we all need to work together to discover what works best for everyone involved.
can't we all just have a group hug, sing camp songs around a big bonfire and be friends?!?!
i was pretty much just thinking the same thing! i could go for a group hug right now.
Les, I don't think there is any way that we're ever going to have every social need satisfied by our partner. Just doesn't happen. It isn't necessarily "emotional cheating" to have serious conversations with a married man... just it would be dangerous to try (or end up) replacing his partner in emotional support stuff.
As a single woman, I have found that most of my male friends have evaporated when they got attached. However, I have since formed a very few friendships with attached men. They're different from other friendships, and we're more likely to talk about politics or world view or art rather than feelings or relationships or sex. I see no issue with them getting that from me instead of or in addition to from their wife or girlfriend.
Even then, most of those conversations aren't over a private lunch, or even coffee. They're usually at a party or something.
Still, I stand by both parts of my response:
You can't get everything you need from one person.
People shy away from the possible appearance of wrong-doing because the rest of the world are gossips who assume the worst.
In my humble opinion.
I also feel that you can't (and, indeed, that it's dangerous to try) to have every need met by your partner. I do feel it's safer to have the "left over" needs met by someone of the same sex.
I think there is a big difference between discussing art, philosophy, or politics and discussing relationships, sex or feelings. I'd be much more comfortable with Jason discussing the former with a female friend than the latter.
yes, that's exactly it. that our married guy friends are different. i like them that way. that's good, healthy, balanced and worth-while. it's when a married guy friend behaves like a non-married guy friend (i.e. wanting to spend copious amounts of time with me alone. sharing deep personal things with me – especially when he's not telling those things to his wife) that i have an issue with. i wasn't saying every time a married man talks to me he's having an affair of the heart. that's just absurd.
well, i hope this is all cleared up now. i'm getting very confused among all this confusion.
This is a great question and I would like to think more before I respond to your last two posts, but I do believe that in some cases a male married friend simply would enjoy a conversation with a woman that is not his wife with no hidden agenda. How would you know he had not agenda? I guess only if he asked his wife if he minded him having coffee with you and she sincerely didn't mind. I have lunch with my former boss often and its 100% platonic and his wife is fine with it.
you misunderstand the question i pose. that being why DON'T i want to spend time with married men. it's not why shouldn't i, or why shouldn't married men. it's about not wanting close friendships with married men. i just don't want to. and the thing is, that's how i feel, so i don't have to engage in close friendships with attached men. because i don't want to. so it's not an issue, it's not a dilemma. i was just expressing my feelings about it. everyone has a right to disagree with me. just as i have a right to say "no thanks, i'll pass".
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